Tim: Which is to say Jesus is Lord. “Therefore concerning the eating of foods sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world and that there is no God but one. His first warning is 8:4. Paul regarded his converts not only as individuals who had been freed from sin but also as organic members of the collective body of Christ. Jon: And then, when the all the Hebrew Scriptures are translated into Greek, instead of translating the Hebrew letters into Greek letters, they just said, "Let's just use the word Adonai.". I just encourage if you are listening to the podcast, go get out Colossians 1:15-20, memorize it and spend a long time pondering it. Jon: If he was created, then how did he create everything? "We" being he and the other apostles. What's interesting is, a lot of Paul's most dense statements about Jesus are found in poems that are embedded in his letters. It's in his 1 Corinthians 8 when he's writing them about food sacrificed to idols. It might be a helpful analogy. Jon: Is he using Lord as master or Lord as Yahweh? Then he attaches matching phrases to each. Jon: What's the difference between from someone and by something? Tim: But it's there and it's a beautiful poetic form. But which is bigger? The return of the Lord and the resurrection of the dead. Jon: If God is transcendent and ultimately is beyond meta, then one plus one equals one. He's taken the two descriptions of the God of Israel, God Elohim, and Yahweh, and he's broken that one with two words. Jesus was a messiah son of God sent to earth to free all those who accepted him of their sins. The Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4-5: But it's not something you can understand. Paul’s View of Jesus as an Angel. Jon: But is there ever a point in the New Testament where the divine name is used? Happy Thanksgiving. Paul also references Jesus appearing in bodily form in 1 … Jesus is Lord, and if you trust in His death and resurrection for you, you're on the Jesus team.". Anyway. Tim: Correct. The way he talks about Jesus is the same kind of highly exalted view that we find in the Gospel narratives. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”. Many biblical scholars and lay Christians have noted that Jesus preached almost exclusively about the kingdom of heaven, while Paul highlighted justification by faith—and not vice versa… Tim: Yeah. Jon: Paul was a first century Jew, and like all of his family before him, he would daily recite the Shema, which goes like this: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord is one." Tim: Maybe to bring it back to something probably from our first conversation, what many people throughout the history of Western Christianity have wished Paul would have said was Jesus is God. Jon: Yeah, it's the image of God. Here's another example. Tim’s point is that the Greek word “kurios,” when translated through the Hebrew, equates to Paul calling Jesus Yahweh. Because it seems like what he's saying when he says firstborn of all creation, it's not like God had a bunch of kids and Jesus was the oldest. Jon: But in Hebrew and Greek you do? In simple terms, Paul was merely a tool—albeit a significant one—that the resurrected Jesus used to help build and strengthen the church (see Ephesians 2:19-22; I Corinthians 3:6-9). Yeah, he's not using the procreation part of the metaphor, which he makes clear by the next thing that he says. Both of those words, Son and firstborn, carry with it procreation baggage for me. Death with Christ gave “newness of life” in the present and guaranteed being raised with him in the future (6:4–5). For by Him all things were created, Jon: But is that a typical thing and Greek or Hebrew where you would use firstborn to not refer to literally the one born of? These have all been committed to memory so they're floating around and they're being preserved and passed on by the circles connected with the apostles. having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, Paul stands on the other side of the cross and resurrection and is able to see…that what was being accomplished in Jesus’ life was incomplete part from the cross and empty tomb. It's not formatted as poetry in most English translations. He takes this prayer that was so embedded into his being and he adapts it. He needed to engage in mission because the fundamental sin of human beings is the failure to honor and praise God. Later Peter confirmed Paul’s message, publicly declaring his conviction: “We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we [Jews] shall be saved even as they [Gentiles]” (15:11). This is Thanksgiving week here in the United States, and so we just wanted to take a moment and let you know that we are incredibly thankful for you for listening along, for being involved in this project, for sharing it. Find free videos, study notes, and more at thebibleproject.com. Remember first born here. He needed to engage in mission because human beings are separated f… That's right. Jon: The man, the Son of Man. He's basically stuck Jesus in the Shema. He goes on to say, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." So in the quote from the book of Joel, the logic would be: Jesus = Kurios = Yahweh. This has been a really long conversation. It has been shown that Paul regarded himself as a disciple of Jesus, that he was so regarded by those who had been Jesus' friends, that he had abundant opportunity for acquainting himself with Jesus' words and deeds, that he does refer to them occasionally, that he could have done so oftener if he had desired, that the imitation of Jesus found a place in his life, and that his likeness to Jesus extends even to … . Jon: One Lord. You just sit with it. I think I understand it, I don't know if I do. Tim: That's right. This one's awesome. Tim: None in the New Testament. Those who are in Christ will be transformed into a spiritual body like Christ’s when he returns, but they are already being “transformed” and “renewed” (2 Corinthians 3:18; 4:16); the “life of Jesus” is already being made visible in their mortal flesh (4:11). Colossians 1:15, he's talking about Jesus. Jon: Right. Here’s a bit from my chapter 7 of How Jesus Became God where I talk about why I think Paul understood Jesus, before coming to earth, to have been an angel. Since neither “messiah” nor “son of God” automatically conveys a specific meaning, the significance of these terms must be determined by studying how each author uses them. Jon: Remember when we talked about poetry? Jon: Remember when we talked about poetry?Tim: Oh, yes. We are entering into the last stretch in our conversation on the identity of God. Jon: Because he could have easily been like, "Well, let's riff on the Shema. Tim: He keeps going. Tim: There's one Elohim. Okay. Jon: Which is Jesus is Lord. That's all happening right from the very beginning. In Romans 1:1–6, however, Paul writes that God declared Jesus to be “Son of God” by raising him from the dead. Like if my friend's is going to dedicate whatever his next crop to Zeus and offers his sacrifice—. No, Corinthians. Because if you're in another city, it's not like you've got YouTube to pull Jesus up and watch his sermon. Thus, Paul’s rivals held that his converts were not yet among the people of God. Thanks for being a part of this with us. We've already been in this territory. Besides avoiding the deeds of the flesh, members of the body of Christ receive love as their greatest spiritual gift (1 Corinthians 13). In one breath, this is one sentence. Jon: Because they'll have a little festival in the temple? Only from there do they then obtain spiritual life. Jon: So thrones, dominions, rulers, and authorities, are all these the invisible spiritual...? So Paul's drawing upon that shelf space here of the Father as the one from whom. Identified the Father with one, identify—, Tim: Yeah. And really they just got it and burn up some parts and then you get all the meat to go celebrate. Paul’s view, however, was that his Gentile converts could join the people of God in the last days without becoming Jewish, and he argued vociferously that faith in Christ was the only requirement for Gentiles. the firstborn of all creation. He's not just saying—. He's the image. Tim: So Daniel 7, he's the human one... By means of his word and the Spirit. “Son of God” in the Hebrew Bible is used metaphorically (God is the father, human beings are his children), and this usage continued in postbiblical Jewish literature. It's always Lord. It's mostly that as we're going to see in a few other examples, he treats the Spirit as a third entity alongside the Father and the Son. We're going to talk about God. Tim: Yeah, they'll eat the animal that has been sacrificed. the Father, Jon: Is the firstborn of God. This movement was founded by Jim Wallis, Tony Compolo, Brian McLaren, and Shane Claiborne. Jon: That's interesting because that phrase "all things have been created through him and to himself" in... was it Romans we were looking at? And Paul compares this salvation to the example of the faith without works righteousness God reckoned for Abraham(Rom.4:1-5). Jon: So thrones, dominions, rulers, and authorities, are all these the invisible spiritual...? How do I know that? We saw this in the page 1 of the Gospel of Mark, a quotation from the Old Testament, and in the divine name slot, Lord. Israel... See Acts chs. He's saying, "Listen, this is what we all believe. Now we have two infinities. So that's a category already. Tim: In a metaphoric way, something like that seems to be going on. Tim: That's right. Like he's the equivalent of "in the beginning, God created." There you go. The verb “to put one’s faith in” or “to believe” (the same Greek word, pisteuein, may be translated both ways) appears 49 times in the undisputed letters, while the noun “faith” (or “belief”) appears 93 times. Various Jewish groups, however, expected different kings or messiahs or even none at all, and these titles therefore did not have precise meanings when the Christians started using them. Which is weird on its face because we have one God in the Shema, one God who is Yahweh the Lord, and he's trying to insert Jesus in but keep the language of one. Some offerings were burnt up whole, like the whole burnt offering. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation, that got translated as everyone who calls on the name of the kurios. and we exist for Him; Jon: So we're going to be looking at a lot of New Testament passages? Temples are also the meat markets because animals were being slaughtered there perpetually. "Everyone who calls on the name of the Kurios, Lord, will be saved." You get every single number, which is infinity. In human terms, of course, there's procreation involved, because that's by nature of the case. So anyway, Paul's really important in the conversation of tracing what Christians believed from the very beginning about Jesus. And since the Gospels were written 40 years after the events, they have the most developed views of Jesus." Tim: ...exalted to the throne of God to share in God's rule. That doesn't make sense intuitively. I've discovered it's not good. In part three (22:10-end), Tim outlines Colossians 1:15-20: And He is the image of the invisible God, For in him it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell In other words, teachings of Jesus and the stories about him are being memorized and then told in all this period - from his resurrection. What you find in them isn't some idea that like, "Well, actually, the earliest Christians just had no clue and they were just figuring it out. Tim: Totally. The way he talks about Jesus is the same kind of highly exalted view that we find in the Gospel narratives. Mere repentance is not enough to permit escape from the overwhelming power of sin. Thus, Paul’s religion won out over Jesus’ religion. Tim: But for this point, he's drawing upon the tradition and identifying Jesus as the wisdom of God. In this grand vision of the redemption of the created order, Paul shows how deeply he believed in one God, maker of heaven and earth, and in the cosmic importance of his Son, Jesus Christ. However, if Jesus's view of the Pharisees as lax about the Law is correct (and who can deny our Lord's veracity! 2. Occasionally the verb means “to believe that” something is true (Romans 10:9: “believe in your heart that God raised [Christ]”), but in 1 Thessalonians it means “steadfastness.” Paul feared that the Thessalonians were wavering under persecution, and so he sent Timothy to strengthen their faith. Meaning these idols aren't themselves divine beings, these statues. Jon: So let's drop into the psyche of Paul the Apostle, how he thinks about Jesus of Nazareth as the true human and also as somehow Yahweh himself. Tim: Yeah, that's interesting. Again, this isn't just punting to mystery. In Philippians 2:6–11 Paul states that Christ Jesus was preexistent and came to earth: he “emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness.” This sounds as if Jesus was a heavenly being who only appeared to be human. But once you start getting into the Hebrew Bible categories of this Son of Man, this human one that's exalted to share in God's rule over the universe, and it's the one that in Psalm 110, David calls this one master, who is this one? Tim: Continuing episode. "Having made peace through the cross with things on Earth or things in heaven." Tim: God calls the family of Abraham "My firstborn son" in Exodus 4. Paul describes Jesus as the first fruits of the resurrection for His time in history, and subsequently this resurrection is made available for all of humanity from Adam on down for those who are in Jesus. Further, he is an example that anyone, even the most hardened unbeliever … "And even if there are other spiritual beings, gods in heaven and on earth - of course, there are many gods and lords - yet for us, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we exist through him." Then look what he says. Our video on God: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvYmE2YYIU&t=1s. That's exactly what you're seeing here. He also recognized the leader of the forces of evil, whom he called both “Satan” (1 Corinthians 5:5; 7:5) and “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4). Sheesh. Tim: Correct. Tim says that Paul has basically inserted Jesus into the Shema. He thought that his converts were dead to sin and alive to God and that conduct flowed naturally from people, varying according to who they really were. Tim: But that is in essence what he's doing. For Paul, however, Jesus’ death allowed believers to escape not only the consequences of transgression but also the power of sin that leads to transgression. Like one verse in the New Testament. Tim: Visible and invisible. The materials in the Gospels predate Paul that the final literary shape of the Gospels pause to him. I'm the one through whom the legacy will continue. Tim: Yeah. He is the image of the invisible God. Do I have shelf space in my mind for God using a second self as the medium by means of which He brings creation into existence? In Paul’s mind, Jesus unites all of the Old Testament themes, and all of the labels and titles Paul gives Jesus in this passage trace back to Old Testament ideas. Even before, I'm sure. The message that we all proclaim, me, Peter, John, we're all saying the same thing. What I remember you saying is that at very practical level from the firstborn child, that means I get the inheritance. Tim: For all things have been created through him and to himself, or for himself. Tim: Yeah, that's basically it. Who's the one by whom all things are created? Jon: So you take an infinity like every odd set of numbers that is infinity, you add that to every even set of numbers that is infinity, and what do you get? Psalm 33: "By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made." κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν κύριος εἷς ἐστιν. He's not saying that. Why did Paul have to engage in mission? We've talked about this. Despite all this, Paul believed, at the right time the God of Israel will send his Son to defeat the powers of darkness (1 Corinthians 15:24–26; Philippians 2:9–11). We don't need to say anymore. Feat. Then the note I put there for you, you can see it. Here's another example. This is not the meaning of the debate about “works of the law” in Paul’s letters, however. He's quoting from the book of Joel, which if you read it in Hebrew, it's "everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh." We really are. Jon: Does he talk about wisdom? You can ask me questions like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvYmE2YYIU&t=1s, What is God's Name? Jon: The so-called idols, so-called gods. Tim: Yeah, you're right. He was entirely in favour of good deeds, as the emphasis on perfect behaviour shows, and he did not regard good works as being opposed to “faith.” On the contrary, faith produced good deeds as “fruit of the Spirit” (Galatians 5:22). So you have a whole body of what Bible nerds called Jesus tradition. This absolutist ethical view—those in Christ are to be morally perfect; those not in Christ are extremely sinful—was not always true in practice, and Paul was often alarmed and offended when he discovered that the behaviour of his converts was not what he expected. Jon: I mean, someone must have translated the divine name into Greek. biblical literature: The chronology of Paul. It makes sense why he's using poetry to explain this, because how else...there's no language adequate. He would probably be a little bit more careful. Or for a Jew to say this to a mixed community of other Jews and Gentiles who are all reading, have as a part of their scriptures the Greek Bible, then this becomes a very loaded statement, Jesus is Yahweh. It's actually an important distinction. Just as the elders come out of the city to greet the king, whose authority they have exercised in his absence, and turn to enter the city … Tim: Oh, Israel is the son of God. He's just using that word and taking part of its connotation... Tim: Yes. For him and through him. But the literary works that we know as the Gospels are mosaic of all of that material that was happening. It says more than even the words themselves can communicate. That's first born up there. He says, "For us, there's one God, that's the Father and there's one Yahweh, Lord, Jesus Messiah." Tim: I mean, that's what the words mean. He just says it in the Greek language. I mean, at least in Paul's logic. The Hebrew texts that Joel wrote is the name Yahweh. Things like the Sermon on the Mount and those parables. Tim says that this passage is originally formatted as poetry, which makes sense because there are so many complex ideas being presented that poetry is the only proper way to appreciate it. Anyways, one plus one equals one. Hebrew: “Listen O Israel, Yahweh is our Elohim, Yahweh is one. Today Tim and Jon dive into the writings of Paul in the New Testament. It's actually right from the very beginning, you just have the same ways of talking about Jesus as Yahweh. And here in Colossians, the "through him" and "for him" are both for Jesus. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, So think about how this works. It just evokes so much more richness of meaning. He believed in a "spiritual" body/entity that resided in heaven, not on earth. So cool. Tim: But he doesn't. He's the head of the body, the church, he is the beginning, the firstborn from among the dead ones. Instead of saying it aloud like you do when you read the Hebrew text, you see the four letters of the divine name and say, "Adonai," they actually put in the Greek translation of the word Adonai, which is kurios, Lord. by whom are all things, Since those who partake of the Lord’s Supper participate in the body and blood of Christ, they cannot also participate in the meat and drink at an idol’s table (1 Corinthians 10:14–22). Those who are under sin naturally commit sins—“those who are in the flesh cannot please God” (Romans 8:8)—but those who are in Christ produce “the fruit of the Spirit” (Galatians 5:22; compare Philippians 1:11; Romans 8:2–11). And then for them to say, "Next, everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh will be saved." Jon: But in a metaphoric way, did God give birth to Jesus? [00:07:43], Tim: Here's a well-known passage, at least for some people. Jon: Or wouldn't it be nice if he would have said Jesus is Yahweh? That is the view that he accepts as OBVIOUS and AGREED UPON between himself and the Corinthians. The poem is still isn't over. God, according to Paul, sent Jesus to save the entire world. Here he's just focusing on the Father and the Son because it's making his point. Tim: Mary gave birth to Jesus. Tim: Yeah. Tim: And that's because, the poem goes on, "he is before all things and in him." Just like somehow he can break the Shema apart and talk about the Father and the Son, and in the same breath say they are the one God one - one plus one equals one - so he's using language to say something that doesn't fit any categories we have. In part one (0:00-7:25), Tim explains that Paul’s writings are actually chronologically written earlier than the Gospels, even though they come toward the end of our modern Bibles. So the Father is from whom are all things and we exist for him. Tim says this is important because it shows that the theology expressed by Paul wasn’t something that developed years later after the Gospels. But anyways. Here he's referring to the sons of God, the spiritual beings. The believer was baptized “into Christ,” becoming “one” with him (Galatians 3:27–28). By using this website, I acknowledge that I am 16 years of age or older, and I agree to the. At some point, his adherents also began to refer to him as “Son of God.” Paul employed both “Christ” and “Son of God” freely, and he is also responsible for the widespread use of “Christ” as if it were Jesus’ name rather than his title. But Paul is clear that he is describing not Christians’ departure from earth but Jesus’ arrival—his ‘coming down from heaven’—and the language he uses (parousia, v 15) draws on the description of a king returning to a city he rules after a long absence. Jon: He says same kind of thing. He says, "Here's the message concerning faith that we proclaim." For us, there are two gods." Jesus’ message while living as a man on earth, His gospel, was not for the whole world. So not just God. whether thrones or dominions Tim: You are acing this quiz. Oh, yes. all things have been created through Him and to himself. visible and invisible, Jon: For me, it's like, "What?". In that sense, it breaks the meaning of the words, but—. And you find these comments that he makes that are just astounding. As Beth Moore becomes increasingly liberal in her political views, she seems to be embracing the theology of other liberal “Christians” of the Red Letter Christian Movement who disrespect the Apostle Paul and his writings in favor of a modern, liberalized view of Jesus’ teachings.. Jewish tradition by this time, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures has been available for a couple of centuries now. Jon: You know, when you said, "One plus one equals one," that made me think of is just infinity plus infinity equals infinity. During his lifetime his disciples may have begun to think of him as the Messiah (“Christ” in Greek translation), the anointed one who would restore the fortunes of Israel. In later Christianity it was sometimes supposed that “works of the law” are “good deeds” and that Paul thus set faith in opposition to good works. Namely, my representative people in the world. He even got killed. Paul sees his own physical suffering and spiritual renewal—”though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day” (2 Cor. But now take every odd number. Thank you to all of our supporters! They're rarely the main point. Jon: But we don't use the word firstborn or son very often— Tim: Yeah, we never would. He just said up above, there is no god but one. Jesus obviously went around saying and doing things, and a lot of those were really easy to memorize. Some bore the title Ebionites, “the Poor” (compare Matthew 5:3), and did not accept the tradition that Jesus was born of a virgin. The language that was more natural to him when he wished to describe the believer’s transfer from the power of sin to the power of Christ, however, was dying with Christ, being baptized into him, and becoming one person with him. Tim: Humans are the image of God. I understand it, I ca n't explain infinity we know that there 's no difference between a person! 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